Game Debate #119: Street Fighter II

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

1. Yes, I'm once again making it nebulous as to what version we're talking about.  Consider it a composite.
2. Like usual, vote what you personally think about it at this point in time.  Don't vote by what you think the history books say.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

I'll give the original a 9 since Super Street Fighter II Turbo would be an easy 10 for me.

[Webhead123 | 675]

Still a 9 out of 10, even though it has been refined and innovated upon so much over the past 30 years. I don't know how those wizards at Capcom did it but they managed to create a game which hit that perfect intersection of "easy to learn, hard to master". I've always enjoyed the style and unapologetic nature of the Mortal Kombat games...but their actual game play was almost universally the weakest part of the experience. Style over substance. But with SF2, it says something that some of the most serious fighting game enthusiasts and fighting game tournaments still have Super Turbo as a headlining game. Playability and nuanced design and balancing was always at the forefront of the Street Fighter games.

Personally, while I appreciate all the polish of Super and Super Turbo, I have actually always preferred the slower and more deliberate pace of the original SF2, even today. Ironcially, when I play most home Turbo versions, I dial down the game speed to try to match the pace of the original.

The character designs, music, graphics, sound effects, voice overs...all are just classic and iconic at this point. The arcade version ate more of my quarters than I care to admit and the SNES port is still one of the greatest moments in the history of "arcade-to-console" ports ever.

9/10 all day, every day. I still fire up this game sometimes, even though I never have anyone to play it with (also, I'm not that good).

Edited September 14, 2022 by Webhead123

[mbd39 | 2,018]

An easy 10 for me. I appreciate the original arcade, but I've played the SNES port a ton both single player and with friends.

[TDIRunner | 2,727]

I think an 8 fits for me.  I've always thought the game was fun and I definitely recommend others try it.  With that said, I was never that great at it, and I always played it as a quick time waster.  Just play a few rounds until you get beat, or play a few multiplayer rounds with a friend.  I never got into any of the later releases or sequels.  

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

Man I suck at fighters. I want to be good at them but I just don’t understand the concept. 

[TDIRunner | 2,727]

19 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Man I suck at fighters. I want to be good at them but I just don’t understand the concept. 

It's just button mashing.  I'm not aware of any other method to play them. 

 

[DarkTone | 984]

Vanilla? 8. 

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

8/10 for me if and only if we are talking about the original SF2 World Warrior.

Not 9 or 10 since it has been improved upon many times over and players can find everything that makes SF2 great in every further improved version, starting with Champion Edition and culminating at Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. 
 

SF2 put in place genre defining concepts and mechanics that are still at the core of fighting games today.

[Philosoraptor | 468]

I gave it an 8. Of the big fighting game franchises, Street Fighter has always been down there with Samurai Shodown as one my least favorites. Even among Capcom fighters, I prefer Darkstalkers and Cyberbots. I'm also one of the heathens who really enjoyed Street Fighter EX3.

That's not to say Street Fighter 2 and all its variants aren't great or that I don't understand why they get the fanfare and praise they do; they're just not my preference.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

9. Gotta be my favorite fighting game of all time, between the original and all the other versions. 

[RH | 4,897]

Me and my good gaming buddy of my teenage years primarily got into Tekken 2,3 and Tag Team.  That was our go to series.  Before that, I enjoyed MK but I almost never got to play the Street Fighter games.

This game has something very compelling about it that draws me in.  When I bought my first PS2 (which I imported from Japan, no less) I bought 2 games--Ridger Racer V and Street Fighter 3.  SF and Tekken are similar in that they both are "easy to learn, hard to master" but I think the Tekken team tried to learn from Street Fighter and mirror it without straight-up copying it.

SF2 is a title I've probably not played more than 2-3 rounds.  I'm familiar with most of the characters and I've watched others play, but I've not gotten into it.  Street Fighter, much like Mega Man titles, are games that I really want to pick up and experience but I've just not done it yet.  So, that's why I had to rate it what I have.  I probably could fudge a 7/8 rating from what I know, but that doesn't feel honest or fair so I'm going to say "Never played, but interested."

Edited September 16, 2022 by RH

[glazball | 168]

I remember playing the original Street Fighter (not II, the original with the big spongy buttons) in our mall's arcade and though it was fun, it was hard.  It wasn't easy to throw a hadouken, but that was by design.  It's hard in real life to summon a ball of energy and hurl it forward - try it!

SF1 laid the groundwork, but SFII was a revelation.  It made combat responsive and special moves easy.  Well, easier.  It still took practice to learn but the game was just so fun, it made you want to learn how every character played.

I still have so much nostalgia for SFII.  'Member putting your quarter on the cabinet, to hold your spot for next game?  'Member when the SNES port came out and how impeccable it was?  For better or worse, SFII was the fighting game myself and all my friends took to and we played the shit out of it.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

14 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

Man I suck at fighters. I want to be good at them but I just don’t understand the concept. 

I think you are supposed to fight the other guy.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

I'm between 6 and 7.  I bumped it to a 7 for historical significance.

It was revolutionary at the time.  Really the catalyst of modern fighting games.  And I played it a ton in arcade and Turbo on the Genesis.  And I love the Marvel crossovers too.  But one thing never quite felt right about it and that is the differentiation between quick, medium, and heavy strikes each being assigned their own button.

By the time Virtua Fighter and more so Tekken came around, I was a convert.  It made much more sense to have each limb assigned to a button rather than 3 buttons each for punches and kicks.  I do still enjoy SF on occasion but never really looked back after Tekken.

[sp1nz | 611]

One of the all time greats in the fighting game category. Version mileage will vary a lot, but it's definitely a great and balanced versus 2D fighter that oozes character and brings some timeless banger tunes. I guess the thing that brings it down a bit is the light single player content. Loved playing Super Street Fighter II on my Mega Drive as a kid, heck I even had a Tiger LCD game of it (bought one again for the nostalgia, it even came with the manual). Beat the GB version on Level 5 with all chars last November, even that version has some merit to it, not that I'd rate it highly. Go home and be a family man!

9/10

Edited September 15, 2022 by sp1nz

[G-type | 2,479]

I'm not really a fighting game guy...  I think all the secret special moves is unfair to anyone who just wants to casually pick up and play the game.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

2 hours ago, G-type said:

I'm not really a fighting game guy...  I think all the secret special moves is unfair to anyone who just wants to casually pick up and play the game.

I feel more so that way about Mortal Kombat. There are some cryptic button combinations to achieve fatalities.

SF moves are more intuitive if you know they are there.  It kind of standardized special moves for all other games to come.  The forward roll, backwards roll, double tap forward, hold down then up, hold back then forward... Any game with special moves was inspired by SF and uses some form of these to perform the move.

Edited September 16, 2022 by JamesRobot

[G-type | 2,479]

11 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

It kind of standardized special moves for all other games to come. 

The fact that this game established it as the standard for the genre is why I hold it against it even more.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

14 hours ago, G-type said:

I'm not really a fighting game guy...  I think all the secret special moves is unfair to anyone who just wants to casually pick up and play the game.

Seriously even in the 90s it was relatively easy to get that info. Plus pulling off hadoukens and shoryukens and lightning kicks isn’t even the beginning of how to master SF2. They can all be avoided and countered with normal attacks.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

1 hour ago, G-type said:

The fact that this game established it as the standard for the genre is why I hold it against it even more.

kinda this.

I'm sure part of it is that I never got acclimated to this stuff in childhood (mom didn't like "violent" games when I was young and I was never super-interested) but yeah, can't really get over this. Feel like the control pad should generally be for movement, not complicated special move inputs. The other 2D genres seldom use this stuff for anything important so I feel like it probably shouldn't be in this one either.

And when it does pop up elsewhere it annoys me and I try to work around it. I've basically never even bothered with magic in Symphony of the Night because I didn't want to use the diagonal inputs. And as far as I'm concerned the proper input for Sabin's Aurabolt in FFVI is "Down, down, left." It works.

Mind, I'm probably not well-wired for fighting games regardless of the controls - I like but don't love Smash and am a "shields? What are those?"-level player. I like the graphics, music, and characters of Street Fighter II. The fighting itself? Kinda neat but I never quite "got" it, although I've never stuck around for long either. The lack of content doesn't help with that. After I beat M. Bison (after a lot of continues obviously!) I don't really feel like going back for more and doing it again afterwards. Multiplayer? Wasn't super into it and was also a little young (born in 1989) to have really played it much when it was a Current Thing.

[Tanooki | 4,930]

I gave it a 9 and it's well deserved as the game was never perfection, there was even competition then given one of the old SF creators went rogue to SNK for Fatal Fury, and up against even it was shortly after Samurai Shodown too.

The game was(is) exceptionally well balanced and better yet, didn't rely on button mashing stupidity or going quick, it was calculating, slower but not slow, you had to think to survive and react well or take a pounding.  The character balance was largely excellent.  I cracked into it in mid 1992 finding myself able to daily an arcade in the summer, getting fed up not being able to learn it due to lines with quarters, when the SNES game dropped I aggravatingly paid the $65 price Capcom inflated on it(a very big rarity) just so I could practice.  Once i was comfy with the controller I went straight to working the full roster at LV5 (of 7) then went up, in the end I could clear all but Zangief and Dhalsim on 7 (they were 5 or 6 I forget.)  I suck now compared, can still struggle to finish it but that's it as I don't bother much anymore.  I'm on long term fighter burnout which is why I have few even on my NeoGeo.

The game consumed me with all the intricacies, the differences between each character, character move set, the stages, and the epic sound track.  I enjoyed the shitty US cartoon, saw the anime OVAs too which were great.  I even made a mix tape in the day hooking up a quality receiver I inherited and a mic and went to the SNES sound space to record each stage onto a 30min clip on both sides for on the go.   There was little to hate about the game, it just wasn't cheap or foul, it was YOUR fault if you got your ass handed to you.  I realized that fast learning the tricks of the AI and improving, within a few weeks at that arcade I put people off the machine.  A few would try and regret it as I never got kicked off it again that summer or the next either.  I did the same act in learning along with MK1 too, never liked it as much, more of a gore play than quality fighter but still good.  SF2 is just iconic, so much since has aped it with subtle nods in other cartoons, video games (like the post above pointing out Sabin FF3/6), and other media.  Even if you blow at SF2, you know SF2 and at some level can appreciate it if it's other media, or just for what it did, that's just how good it is.  IT's basically despite all the upgrades, revisions, half releases, side stories, even the junkier recent stuff is clear, the franchise is basically fighting gamers 'Mario, Zelda, etc. it's 'that game' to define a generation and more.

[G-type | 2,479]

1 hour ago, MagusSmurf said:

Feel like the control pad should generally be for movement, not complicated special move inputs.

It's like someone said, "what if we took debugging/cheat codes and made inputting them a core part of the game"

[wongojack | 211]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:02 AM, MagusSmurf said:

kinda this.

I'm sure part of it is that I never got acclimated to this stuff in childhood (mom didn't like "violent" games when I was young and I was never super-interested) but yeah, can't really get over this. Feel like the control pad should generally be for movement, not complicated special move inputs. The other 2D genres seldom use this stuff for anything important so I feel like it probably shouldn't be in this one either.

And when it does pop up elsewhere it annoys me and I try to work around it. I've basically never even bothered with magic in Symphony of the Night because I didn't want to use the diagonal inputs. And as far as I'm concerned the proper input for Sabin's Aurabolt in FFVI is "Down, down, left." It works.

Mind, I'm probably not well-wired for fighting games regardless of the controls - I like but don't love Smash and am a "shields? What are those?"-level player. I like the graphics, music, and characters of Street Fighter II. The fighting itself? Kinda neat but I never quite "got" it, although I've never stuck around for long either. The lack of content doesn't help with that. After I beat M. Bison (after a lot of continues obviously!) I don't really feel like going back for more and doing it again afterwards. Multiplayer? Wasn't super into it and was also a little young (born in 1989) to have really played it much when it was a Current Thing.

 

On 9/16/2022 at 11:50 AM, G-type said:

It's like someone said, "what if we took debugging/cheat codes and made inputting them a core part of the game"

Bumping an older poll, and I agree with these posts.  I was interested in SF II, and I played it at my friends' houses on their SNESes when it came out, but I never really "got" it.  The controls seemed endlessly complicated, and the base controls were never enough.  Hidden behind hours of practice and repetition there was probably a fun game, but it was too hard to get to for me.  I did eventually borrow the game or played it enough to finish the single player fights, but I never wanted to go back.  The controls held this back for me and have held the entire genre back ever since.  

When God of War came out, I finally thought to myself "This is how I want to learn fighting combos."

[DarkTone | 984]

9 is fair.