Hardest game you've beaten?

[Floating Platforms | 713]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:20 AM, Sumez said:

That's completely misunderstanding the Souls series, if you think the difficulty is in any way "the point".

Yeah, as an outsider to the series that's how it comes across at least. Whenever I see it talked about, the difficulty is the first thing mentioned as if the selling point is getting newcomers to try it from a "how hard can it be, really?" mentality. "You keep saying it's tough, but I'll be the judge of that."  The next thing mentioned is the atmosphere and the "story" that is told mostly through contextual means.  But the difficulty is always at the forefront talking about you have to get good and learn the nuances and patterns of each single enemy, etc. That type of time commitment definitely doesn't appeal to me even if it isn't the ultimate "point"

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

I never knew Adventure Island was so tough. I'll have to add it to the list.

Anyone know how Adventure Island compares to Wonder Boy (arcade/SMS) or Revenge of Drancon (GG) in terms of difficulty?

[mbd39 | 2,017]

45 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

I never knew Adventure Island was so tough. I'll have to add it to the list.

Anyone know how Adventure Island compares to Wonder Boy (arcade/SMS) or Revenge of Drancon (GG) in terms of difficulty?

Never played Wonder Boy, but I think Adventure Island is supposed to be harder.

https://www.1upvscpu.com/2018/07/adventure-island-review.html?m=1

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

36 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

Never played Wonder Boy, but I think Adventure Island is supposed to be harder.

https://www.1upvscpu.com/2018/07/adventure-island-review.html?m=1

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that link. I also checked out a few YouTube videos just to see the difference. Maybe after I take on Adventure Island, I'll give Wonder Boy a shot.

[AirVillain | 485]

3 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

I never knew Adventure Island was so tough. I'll have to add it to the list.

Anyone know how Adventure Island compares to Wonder Boy (arcade/SMS) or Revenge of Drancon (GG) in terms of difficulty?

I LOVE Adventure Island, yet I can only get to Level 4. 4-4? 

There's a certain point I've never passed. Not sure even a Game Genie would help because once you die and lose your weapons you're hooped.

I think there's a later level that is infamous for this very reason. 

I purchased Wonder Boy recently on SMS to attempt to answer this very question. Unfortunately I was very unsuccessful in purchasing a system.... so I'm still on the hunt for that. 

[Nintegageo | 582]

@AirVillain you can get the power base converter and play with your Genesis

Edited September 10, 2022 by Nintegageo

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

2 hours ago, AirVillain said:

I LOVE Adventure Island, yet I can only get to Level 4. 4-4? 

There's a certain point I've never passed. Not sure even a Game Genie would help because once you die and lose your weapons you're hooped.

I think there's a later level that is infamous for this very reason. 

I purchased Wonder Boy recently on SMS to attempt to answer this very question. Unfortunately I was very unsuccessful in purchasing a system.... so I'm still on the hunt for that. 

 

1 hour ago, Nintegageo said:

@AirVillain you can get the power base converter and play with your Genesis

I also feel tremendous nostalgia and love for Adventure Island despite only playing it a handful of times in the 80s and early 90s. The gameplay, graphics, and music just coalesce into something very unique.

As for SMS, I'd highly recommend grabbing a Mega Sg (https://www.analogue.co/mega-sg) if you have the cash. It's a beautiful machine that plays Genesis/Mega Drive games almost flawlessly and comes with an SMS adapter. It outputs in super crisp 1080p for pixels so sharp they could cut you.

Edited September 10, 2022 by DoctorEncore

[Red | 434]

6 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

I never knew Adventure Island was so tough. I'll have to add it to the list.

Anyone know how Adventure Island compares to Wonder Boy (arcade/SMS) or Revenge of Drancon (GG) in terms of difficulty?

There are some things that make the NES or SMS versions easier or harder than the other, but overall, I think the SMS version is a bit easier.  It feels like the SMS version controls slightly better.  Some of the enemies are a bit easier to deal with as well.  The cobras don't spit fire and the bad eggs are speckled (in the NES version, the good and bad ones look the same).  The SMS version doesn't have the fireball upgrade though, so you can't just destroy all the rocks and boulders.  To play the final level in the SMS version, you have to collect all the dolls in the previous stages.  In the NES version, the dolls are replaced with pots, which only give bonus points.  You can access the final stage whether you collect them all or not.   The SMS version is longer too, with 10 stages total, compared to 8 on NES.

I've played very little of the arcade version so I can't comment on that one.  I haven't played the Game Gear version, but I hear it's based on the SMS version.

[Sumez | 2,930]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:44 PM, Floating Platforms said:

Yeah, as an outsider to the series that's how it comes across at least. Whenever I see it talked about, the difficulty is the first thing mentioned as if the selling point is getting newcomers to try it from a "how hard can it be, really?" mentality. "You keep saying it's tough, but I'll be the judge of that."  The next thing mentioned is the atmosphere and the "story" that is told mostly through contextual means.  But the difficulty is always at the forefront talking about you have to get good and learn the nuances and patterns of each single enemy, etc.

Yeah, the difficulty of the Souls games is what gets "advertised" a lot, but it's just massively underselling the games!

When Dark Souls 1 released as a sequel to Demon's Souls, Namco used the famous "Prepare To Die" tagline to promote it, which fans were pretty outraged about for those same reasons, and to this day most people would prefer to distance themselves from it.
Like you said, the game's atmosphere and the way you interact with and absorb the word is honestly what first and foremost defines the series - IMO to a much higher degree than the difficulty of the games. Of course, the challenge is quite essential in defining this experience, so it's not like it's not an important ingredient - it just isn't what defines the games.
I think it's also worth hammering down the fact that the type of difficulty employed in the Souls games also isn't the pure skill-gated arcade style of purely challenging gameplay, where merely beating the game is something only the best players will be able to do. The games are almost consistently designed around the idea that anyone who's willing to constantly pay attention to their surroundings and learn from their mistakes, can win the game by using their wit rather than relying on superhuman reflexes.

On 9/10/2022 at 5:44 PM, Floating Platforms said:

That type of time commitment definitely doesn't appeal to me even if it isn't the ultimate "point"

The commitment however, is definitely more of a core ingredient to the games, and a big part of what makes it resonate so well with all kinds of people. I think it's sad to write off games beforehand based on the level of commitment they demand, even if I can understand why it's a factor in the decision process when deciding what to play.

If I don't like a game well, it makes sense I don't want to commit to it. But the Souls games, for most people who play them, are games that are simply impossibly not to commit to due to how engrossing they are. You don't just commit to them because it's necessary to make progress, you commit to them because it's the most fun way to enjoy them.
If you're approaching all games as just a casual pastime to pass the hours, that's fine to some extent - but you'll be missing out on a ton of those most enjoyable aspects of video games.  

[Brickman | 3,978]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

Yeah, the difficulty of the Souls games is what gets "advertised" a lot, but it's just massively underselling the games!

When Dark Souls 1 released as a sequel to Demon's Souls, Namco used the famous "Prepare To Die" tagline to promote it, which fans were pretty outraged about for those same reasons, and to this day most people would prefer to distance themselves from it.
Like you said, the game's atmosphere and the way you interact with and absorb the word is honestly what first and foremost defines the series - IMO to a much higher degree than the difficulty of the games. Of course, the challenge is quite essential in defining this experience, so it's not like it's not an important ingredient - it just isn't what defines the games.
I think it's also worth hammering down the fact that the type of difficulty employed in the Souls games also isn't the pure skill-gated arcade style of purely challenging gameplay, where merely beating the game is something only the best players will be able to do. The games are almost consistently designed around the idea that anyone who's willing to constantly pay attention to their surroundings and learn from their mistakes, can win the game by using their wit rather than relying on superhuman reflexes.

The commitment however, is definitely more of a core ingredient to the games, and a big part of what makes it resonate so well with all kinds of people. I think it's sad to write off games beforehand based on the level of commitment they demand, even if I can understand why it's a factor in the decision process when deciding what to play.

If I don't like a game well, it makes sense I don't want to commit to it. But the Souls games, for most people who play them, are games that are simply impossibly not to commit to due to how engrossing they are. You don't just commit to them because it's necessary to make progress, you commit to them because it's the most fun way to enjoy them.
If you're approaching all games as just a casual pastime to pass the hours, that's fine to some extent - but you'll be missing out on a ton of those most enjoyable aspects of video games.  

Couldn’t agree more with this post. Great summary of what makes Dark Souls so great.

The difficulty of the souls games have been so overblown that it sucks to hear people say they won’t try it because it’s hard.

The people complaining they were hard are those who are used to checkpoints every minute and encounters where you don’t even have to try or think.

Souls has a learning curve, but once you get it, it’s really not that hard of a game.

I was able to convince a friend to play them and he is an average gamer at best, but he put the time in and learnt them and now rates it as one of his top games.

Anyone on the fence about Souls games please ignore the it’s hard crowd and give it a go. You won’t regret it

 

[Floating Platforms | 713]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:19 AM, Sumez said:

The commitment however, is definitely more of a core ingredient to the games, and a big part of what makes it resonate so well with all kinds of people. I think it's sad to write off games beforehand based on the level of commitment they demand, even if I can understand why it's a factor in the decision process when deciding what to play.

If I don't like a game well, it makes sense I don't want to commit to it. But the Souls games, for most people who play them, are games that are simply impossibly not to commit to due to how engrossing they are. You don't just commit to them because it's necessary to make progress, you commit to them because it's the most fun way to enjoy them.
If you're approaching all games as just a casual pastime to pass the hours, that's fine to some extent - but you'll be missing out on a ton of those most enjoyable aspects of video games.  

Thanks for writing that all out. I can certainly understand that perspective and the positives of the series.  That key word for me personally is that commitment part paired with the difficulty.

On 9/13/2022 at 7:51 AM, Brickman said:

The people complaining they were hard are those who are used to checkpoints every minute and encounters where you don’t even have to try or think.

Yes and no.  In my Game Boy challenge, I'm facing more challenge than you might assume and those older games certainly don't always have frequent checkpoints.  For that larger project, I am willing to take that time and go through the various learning curves, manually mapping things out, writing notes and spend hours on a level or puzzle as that is the adventure. So I understand that the Souls series gives that same satisfaction, but

I don't have a problem with games that will ultimately take 100+ hours to beat, but I personally don't usually enjoy the process of learning tougher games when I'm trying to unwind.  I am a "filthy casual" in that respect, because I prefer to keep my games relatively stress free and gear towards the easier stuff like certain puzzle games, point and clicks, open world map clearing stuff.  A lot of my non-GB gaming time is subject to interruptions and distractions, so yeah games with frequent checkpoints sounds great!  I'm not against "hard" games or the souls series, and maybe if I wasn't doing the Game Boy stuff, I'd be more inclined, but it's not something I'm too interested in diving into at this time.

[Sumez | 2,930]

45 minutes ago, Floating Platforms said:

Yes and no.  In my Game Boy challenge, I'm facing more challenge than you might assume and those older games certainly don't always have frequent checkpoints.

I think it's a decent comparison, and I think it's worth noting that this is basically what (Dark) Souls is, and the reason it's been coined as such a "difficult" game. It's essentially comparable to playing Castlevania with infinite lives - The Souls series has often been compared to Castlevania, and I think it makes sense to see it as a modern iteration of that same game design philosophy. In terms of the core gameplay, one of the most difining factors of the games is how you're practically married to every single move as you see it carried out, unable to cancel your actions, very similar to the whip attack or fixed jump arc of the early CV games. Similarly, like Castlevania, the games can be beaten entirely by paying attention and learning how to approach each challenge, rather than relying on some kind of inherent personal skill.

Basically, the whole reason Dark Souls got a reputation for being difficult is that it's built around classic old school video game design philosophies in a modern age where automatically healing from hits, and checkpoints every 30 seconds is the norm.

50 minutes ago, Floating Platforms said:

I personally don't usually enjoy the process of learning tougher games when I'm trying to unwind.  I am a "filthy casual" in that respect, because I prefer to keep my games relatively stress free and gear towards the easier stuff like certain puzzle games, point and clicks, open world map clearing stuff.

I can respect this approach, and I don't think everyone has to like Dark Souls. In fact, I think one of the appealing elements of it is how it feels specifically designed for a certain mindset rather than attempting to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible.

That said, I think it's always worth looking into things you assume you don't like and see what it's all about, just to satiate your curiosity, and some times you'll discover that you can like multiple things despite them seeming like opposites, and for that purpose there's really no reason to not just starting out with the best of the best.
If you have not at least played Dark Souls, I do recommend that you give Dark Souls 1 a try just to see what it's all about, as it has won over many players in the past who also didn't think they would enjoy this style of game. It might not seem so from its reputation, but I absolutely believe it's possible to relax and unwind with Dark Souls, you just need to get to know it first.
You can get the remaster super cheap nowadays, so if you end up still not enjoying it, it's really not a big loss. Just remember, when the game starts proper, don't try to press into the graveyard area, go the other way.

[CMR | 518]

Apparently, I've also completely misunderstood the Souls games.  

[twiztor | 847]

not gonna lie, this discussion has me super interested to play them. i previously dismissed them as "hard for hard's sake" kind of games, which don't interest me. Thank you @Sumez, @Brickman, and @Floating Platforms for engaging in this!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,508]

I'll just say there's a reason Dark Souls is the most influential game of the last 15 years

[guitarzombie | 923]

Probably beating Metal Slug 3 without dying.

[Sumez | 2,930]

19 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

Probably beating Metal Slug 3 without dying.

Ok this is probably the biggest achievement posted so far.

1CC of the first game is pretty easy.
1CC of Metal Slug 2 or X took me a lot of practice. A challenging game which feels like the standard end for arcade games to me.
1CC of Metal Slug 3? That's a real test of skill! And topping that with a one life clear is incredible, I'd never have the patience for that  

[guitarzombie | 923]

1 hour ago, Sumez said:

Ok this is probably the biggest achievement posted so far.

1CC of the first game is pretty easy.
1CC of Metal Slug 2 or X took me a lot of practice. A challenging game which feels like the standard end for arcade games to me.
1CC of Metal Slug 3? That's a real test of skill! And topping that with a one life clear is incredible, I'd never have the patience for that  

I blame the xbox 360 achievements because there was one for not getting hit in every level.  I just kept taking the same path and learned who to bomb, picking up items for certain things etc.  Really it was the last level that was the hardest, and thats what I was really practicing, the rest came easy cuz I had to play it just to get to the last level.  I even wrote out a guide for level 5 on trueachievements.  I remember after learning it, I wasn't expecting to do it right away, so I would keep playing it to tighten it up and remembering what to do, developing stronger strats etc.  One day after band rehearsal, I got home at like 11pm, and decided to fire it up to practice and it was the run.  Everything just fell into place.  I remember my heart racing in the final boss battle.  Ive barely touched the game since haha.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Yeah, some achievements suck you in.

1. Hey, there's a achievement for X. I can do that.

2. Okay, just need to practice.

3. Hmm, this is harder than it looks. But I'm already in, I can see it through.

4. No way I'm letting this game break me.

5. I'm so close!

6. I'm going to die trying. They will find my corpse with this controller in my stiff hand.

7. I did it! (pause) I'm never playing this game again.

8. Maybe I'll give it a go again. Hey, there's an achievement for X.

[guitarzombie | 923]

19 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Yeah, some achievements suck you in.

1. Hey, there's a achievement for X. I can do that.

2. Okay, just need to practice.

3. Hmm, this is harder than it looks. But I'm already in, I can see it through.

4. No way I'm letting this game break me.

5. I'm so close!

6. I'm going to die trying. They will find my corpse with this controller in my stiff hand.

7. I did it! (pause) I'm never playing this game again.

8. Maybe I'll give it a go again. Hey, there's an achievement for X.

At the time, I was trying to 100% all my games and there were only 3 at the time I couldnt do (I even did the 7 day Dead Rising survivor thing, TWICE).  The few that I was missing were the 2 really hard ones in Hexic, getting 10 million in GTA IV (which would take hours of boosting) and some of the glitched multiplayer Ghostbusters achievements.  So I was really going hard on them.  Eventually I just gave up and if anything seemed unreasonable, I didn't bother.  I love the Friday the 13th xbox game, but one of the achievements is being Jason 1000 times, another grind boost that I wasn't interested in.  Otherwise I almost always 100% them.

[Sumez | 2,930]

2 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

Really it was the last level that was the hardest, and thats what I was really practicing

To be fair, that level is also half the game.
Do you have a recording of your run? I'd love to see your path and your strategy for all the tough spots. I've seen a few different approaches to the game, and I don't feel a lot of them work very well for me.

Or do you at least have a link to the guide you wrote, maybe?

Edited September 18, 2022 by Sumez

[guitarzombie | 923]

4 minutes ago, Sumez said:

To be fair, that level is also half the game.
Do you have a recording of your run? I'd love to see your path and your strategy for all the tough spots. I've seen a few different approaches to the game, and I don't feel a lot of them work very well for me.

Or do you at least have a link to the guide you wrote, maybe?

Oh god no haha.  I never do any recording or streaming, and when I did it, I wasn't expecting to do it.  When I looked up my guide, I realized its not a true guide, but piggybacking off of what the other guide had.  Im going back like 10 years so I apologize for the hazy memory.  Also it looks like I did it on easy.  So, i'm not as good as you think!

 

"I just want to add some of the sticky points. Everything up to entering the ship should be ok after you get the hang of it. First I use the plane cuz its easier to avoid the bombs, esp when they come from above, and i constantly use every helicopter. When your character gets captured, that part is not bad when you know what to expect. The annoying part is the aliens when you try to kill them and they're overlapping their ship and you cant shoot em. Next part is easy too when you learn it.

Next when you're in the ship these are some things I learned.

On easy, dont get they Haduken guy. You can use your pistol to take care of the robot but when the aliens come, you want to save the fire gun and the Haduken guy always saves him and you get it too early. You need the fire gun for the brown aliens once you know their pattern, and mostly for the robots at the end.

Then the giant spider robot things. VERY annoying VERY random. The 3rd small one drops either a L or D, and I think once i got a C (Laser, Drop shot, Enemy Chaser). Laser is obviously best. The first robot dude you can glitch to not appear in the video above. The next two should be easy with the mobile satellite (takes close to 100, while you're shooting) and if you stand as far left as you can while still hitting the robot with your pistol, it should fall and not hit you. The 2nd one you should leave a little room to walk in the middle of the screen so you can jump away since its green things are random.

The next part isnt too bad, make sure you always duck just in case (the clones have a pistol I think). Hop in the slug and the rest is just like the video. After the big spider the green things only damage the slug, not when it falls. Then 3 robots in the front, 2 in the back and 1 in the front again.

The next section, follows just like the video.

When you get to the last part, theres 1 zombie and the door. Then you kill the next 3 zombies and get the door. The last zombie has bombs, so crouch and wait to get them. Kill any zombies that come after you then take care of the door. Next you got the 3 zombies, and the one jumping clone dude. I hop in the Vector and get to the door. The key i realized is that you should just barely see the nodes for the door. If you do this the zombies wont come, just the clones. Kill these assholes because they're annoying with shotguns/rocket launchers. If you lose 1 gun you'll be ok, if you lose both its a lot harder but not impossible.

Next part its easy just like in the video. The 2nd robot drops a D, and you DONT want that (you should have a fire gun from the 1st jumping clone you saw). So use your bombs to kill the zombies. Time it right because their vomit CAN hit you. And dont be shy with em. Then continue to the last door. This is what I do, (altho when i got this I didnt hah). Explode your vector cannon on the door, and take out the 2 bottom nodes. Then it should be about 3 fire shots for the top node. Of course watch out for annoying zombies but if you've got fire it'll be fine. BEWARE!!! When you explode the vector cannon to duck cuz you are vulnerable. When I got my Continue achieve, thats the only place i died. I jumped out and as I was falling i got hit with vomit. Very frustrating.

If everything went well, you should have 27 fire and 15ish grenades.
To kill rootmars on easy, throw all your grenades first and then it'll take about 20 fire bullets i think? And thats it.

If you lost your vector cannon, and you jump in the other slug, it'll use your fire. Just use your fire to kill the robots and when the zombies come use the jump out glitch to avoid vomit. I accidentally got the dropshot and used it as much as I could. When I got to the last door I kamakazied the slug for the bottom 2 nodes, and used my pistol on the top one. Also using my grenades to kill advancing zombies, cuz thats really hard.

When I got the achievement I ONLY had pistol and 8 grenades. So you better be really good at fighting rootmars using that slug trick. And I believe unless you got a super fast trigger finger or shoot a red orb to get a better weapon, it'll be almost impossible beating him with just the pistol. I beat him with 6 seconds left on the clock, and at the end I was panicking and was using the slug. So make sure you use the slug cannon too against him.

Its not impossible, but just MUCH harder."
 

[dr.robbie | 78]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:59 PM, DefaultGen said:

Idk, Simon's Quest because I don't think anyone on planet Earth can beat that game without cheating and having Nintendo Power tell them to duck at the cliff (to be clear I only beat it after I knew to do that like everyone else)

Holy crap I completely forgot about this. I remember having everything in that game. Going town to town dropping holy water on every freaking block trying to figure out where the crap I was supposed to go to next. This was pre-internet help days and I spent so many hours grinding everything trying to find a false wall or hidden door or anything. Years later I finally came across that NP issue and went back to finally beat it. I was so mad at that game for so long lol. I still love the game, but that cliff... man... that was awful. 

 

In response to the original question, I honestly don't know. A few that stick out:

-I remember a rumor back around release that if you beat Megaman 2 without dying 3 times it would unlock protoman as a playable character. I finally did it as a kid and was very disappointed that the rumor was false

-Battlekid was a grind and was probably the last time I pushed myself to beat a difficult game

-The original TMNT took me about 3 decades to finally beat and was quite satisfying

[guitarzombie | 923]

@Sumez Whats with the eyeroll? 

[Sumez | 2,930]

7 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

@Sumez Whats with the eyeroll? 

Lol! It was meant to be a "love" react! Now I feel incredibly bad.

Don't blame me, I can't be the only one who's completely unable to recognize what each of those tiny faces is supposed to represent without reading the hover text?

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sumez