Game Debate #116: Yoshi's Island

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

[docile tapeworm | 4,194]

Smw2<smw

[Tanooki | 4,930]

Super Mario World stands alone, Yoshi's Island stands alone, there is no sequel.  Now that grudge is out of the way as honestly I probably wouldn't have bought it when it came out so I got duped.

That said I'm not blind to the quality of accomplished work, general design, and downright unique effects it did either.  Best game, nope, above average and under, not really either.  IT's good, quite good, and I do feel I can recommend it, despite the fact even now I'm still put off it enough I don't really bother, nor would I bother to finish it either.  The stages are very very well designed, the crying mechanic though is utterly grating and alone costs this a point, yeah, I'm that annoyed.  I also find the whole rank system utterly loathesome in most games too, this included, as it's a kick in the teeth if you're not wanting to be a perfectionist yet it twinging on any OCD tendencies about that.  It didn't really have much as SMW did in hidden stuff, stuff sure, but not massive stages and alternating worlds and paths the SNES did at the start of the life.  It has a trade off, largely it's a great game, but there little annoyances that just hold it back.  It can be easier or harder depending how hard you are on yourself to play it, again, the rank thing.  It's good, better than most platformers, but some do outshine it if you take away what the FX did for it.

[RH | 4,895]

I have always wanted to play this game.  I hate to be that guy but Baby Mario crying was too annoying for me to get past that.

Has someone patched that sound out? I might be willing to give that a try one day.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

IIRC I did hear about a patch that did that?

I never found it that annoying though.

If the crying is actually getting seriously annoying though, something is probably wrong with how you're doing this because with very few exceptions Baby Mario really shouldn't be getting away from Yoshi for more than maybe like 2 seconds after you get hit. And this isn't really a game that's super-concerned about hitting you, either.

in other words:

git gud

[TDIRunner | 2,725]

I don't find the crying annoying, but that might be because I'm good at the game.  I never liked that they called it Super Mario World 2 since it's clearly not a true sequel to SMW, but it's still an amazing game and one of the best on the SNES and started a great Mario sub series.    

Also, it's one of the earlier games that I remember that rewarded you for collecting everything in each level which really added to the replay value and increased the overall challenge.  

Edited August 24, 2022 by TDIRunner

[rdrunner | 422]

8/10 - Not sure why people hate the sound of Baby Mario crying.  Real baby crying is way worse.

Edited August 24, 2022 by rdrunner

[Ankos | 433]

Great soundtrack, nice graphics, fun gameplay. All around I loved this game. I played the GBA rerelease, but I've heard it is pretty much the same game. The crying did not phase me, but if it did phase you, then you probably did not have the game on mute because you were enjoying the soundtrack

[phart010 | 1,705]

25 minutes ago, Ankos said:

Great soundtrack, nice graphics, fun gameplay. All around I loved this game. I played the GBA rerelease, but I've heard it is pretty much the same game. The crying did not phase me, but if it did phase you, then you probably did not have the game on mute because you were enjoying the soundtrack

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Miyamoto just wanted to make a different type of game for the sequel to Mario World. Hence the Yoshi hovering and egg throwing mechanics. Graphics were originally not supposed to be an area of concern so it probably would have looked similar to the SMW graphics.

But Donkey Kong Country came out with  it’s 2D captures  of 3D rendered models and some decision makers at Nintendo were so impressed that they wanted that for SMW2 also. Miyamoto got quite pissed off that these folks got fixated on the graphics and also the fact that they were wanting him to imitate something that someone else had already done.

He was able to compromise with them by doing the “coloring book” crayon art style but apparently he was still pretty pissed because he didn’t even really want the graphics to be a big directional change to begin with

Edited August 24, 2022 by phart010

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

I'm not really into games that hide stuff everywhere and then keep track of how much of it you've found such that you feel obligated to play levels over and over again to 100% them.  But that aside, I like the music, play control, level design and general atmosphere of the game.  Definitely worth a playthrough...

[CMR | 519]

I love this game.  When it came out, I was just shifting into angsty teenager mode and almost passed on it.  I'm glad I didn't now.  I eventually 100%ed it.  I got all the stuff, all the secret levels and bonus levels, and even beat the second quest.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

Meh. Couldn't get into it.

[Tanooki | 4,930]

Collect-a-thon garbage is something a lot of people have little to no tolerance for... I'm around the little part, and goes back to my comment why it would drive some people nuts with the stupid ranking (0-100%) per stage.  It's forced replays which sucks, just enjoy the game already.

[Splain | 2,560]

Love this game. One of my all time favorites. Yeah, the crying created some urgency to get you to stop it, but it's not a hard game if you're just trying to get to the end. I 100%'d it as a kid and those bonus levels were brutal. Once you could get items at-will by 100%ing certain worlds, that made it way easier to get 100 on the harder levels.

There was a code you could enter that unlocked some 2-player mini games, and I played those plenty.

[ifightdragons | 234]

I recommend the improvement hack that removes the crying, and makes red coins actually red.

[Sumez | 2,933]

Easy 9/10

Such a fantastic well polished game - although Mario games have always represented top of the line game design, I think this was the game that truly took the series into the fantastic next-level creative explosion that's come to define every modern Mario game, especially titles like Mario Galaxy, 3D World and Odyssey. Almost every stage in Yoshi's Island has its own unique theme and new fun ideas.

The controls and physics of the game is the perfect combination of smooth controlling and nuanced enough that every single playthrough is entirely unpredictable, with even experienced speedrunners needing to frequently improvise themselves out of sticky situations.

And just to top it off, the music is fantastic, and the graphics... Probably the best looking game on the SNES?

[Sumez | 2,933]

11 hours ago, RH said:

I have always wanted to play this game.  I hate to be that guy but Baby Mario crying was too annoying for me to get past that.

Has someone patched that sound out? I might be willing to give that a try one day.

The trick is to not lose Baby Mario  

[OptOut | 8,881]

I'll give this a 10, if only because this was my actual, hands-down, favourite game of all time for like a very long time. I'm not QUITE as high on the game as I used to be, if only because it might be one of those games I've played to death, but it's a fantastic accomplishment in both visual design and game design nonetheless.

I think the Yoshi series has only kinda gone sideways since this game tbh (apart from the significant dip that Yoshi's Story represents). Yoshi's Island DS is really good, but its just more of the same. Same goes with Yoshi's New Island. The woolly world games are good too, but again, not really raising the bar in anything other than visuals. The game was basically perfected the first time, IMO.

Also, personally, I tend to disregard any comparisons between this game and SMW. They really had no business titling this game Super Mario World 2, as they are really nothing alike in either gameplay or story or visually, or really anything other than a name. You may as well call Super Mario Kart Super Mario World 2, that's just about as close really! It was just branding, I guess the same way as calling Wario Land Mario Land 3, it's a meaningless title IMO.

 

Oh, also, while I'm here...

I never pass up an opportunity to show off my own, personal childhood copy of the game... Too bad some old Japanese dude ruined the value with permanent marker, eh?! 

[Sumez | 2,933]

21 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It was just branding, I guess the same way as calling Wario Land Mario Land 3, it's a meaningless title IMO.

Kinda both ways on this. I don't think a sequel needs to be the same core gameplay at all, but I'd still expect them to share some kind of arbitrary "ideals". Other good examples of this happening are Solomon's Key 2, Rainbow Islands (bubble bobble 2), Resident Evil 4, Rayman 2, and Final Fantasies 2, 10, 12, 14, or 15, etc.

Wario Land being Mario Land 3 makes sense - it's a new platform game made by the same team, and story-wise it's a completely direct continuation from the ending of Mario Land 2 (Mario takes his castle back, now Wario wants one of his own). However, Wario Land 2 is already so detached that it could never be Mario Land 4. I'll buy this for more than just branding reasons.

Yoshi's Island being SMW2 is, essentialy, completely a marketing branding decision, in the sense that it was only slapped on for the European and North American releases - the people in power decided it needed the Mario brand, and to some extent I think they were probably right there.

I think the decision was reasonable. Maybe "SMW2" feels weirdly specific (especially given SMW was already SMB4), but I'd definitely buy "Super Mario: Yoshi's Island" or whatever.
It's a game made by the same dev team, right down to producers, lead directors, the composer and most of the programmers, and it still prominently features Mario, alongside tons of other elements from his games, just like many elements from this game would be brought back by subsequent Super Mario games.
And of course, the "Yoshi series" was not a thing yet. I'm not a big fan of the other Yoshi games (except maybe Woolly World), and although they of course all take things from Yoshi's Island, this game is a billion times better than any of them - a lot of that I think is owed to how similar it feels to other Super Mario games

Edited August 25, 2022 by Sumez

[phart010 | 1,705]

2 hours ago, OptOut said:

I'll give this a 10, if only because this was my actual, hands-down, favourite game of all time for like a very long time. I'm not QUITE as high on the game as I used to be, if only because it might be one of those games I've played to death, but it's a fantastic accomplishment in both visual design and game design nonetheless.

I think the Yoshi series has only kinda gone sideways since this game tbh (apart from the significant dip that Yoshi's Story represents). Yoshi's Island DS is really good, but its just more of the same. Same goes with Yoshi's New Island. The woolly world games are good too, but again, not really raising the bar in anything other than visuals. The game was basically perfected the first time, IMO.

Also, personally, I tend to disregard any comparisons between this game and SMW. They really had no business titling this game Super Mario World 2, as they are really nothing alike in either gameplay or story or visually, or really anything other than a name. You may as well call Super Mario Kart Super Mario World 2, that's just about as close really! It was just branding, I guess the same way as calling Wario Land Mario Land 3, it's a meaningless title IMO.

 

Oh, also, while I'm here...

I never pass up an opportunity to show off my own, personal childhood copy of the game... Too bad some old Japanese dude ruined the value with permanent marker, eh?! 

He chose to sign it at the perfect spot too. Completely Blacking out “Super Mario World 2”.. was he hinting something?  

[OptOut | 8,881]

1 minute ago, phart010 said:

He chose to sign it at the perfect spot too. Completely Blacking out “Super Mario World 2”.. was he hinting something?  

SO TRUE!!!

Yoshi's Island equals NOT SMW2 confirmed!!1!!11111!!!!1!!111!!1

[AstralSoul | 502]

In my opinion this game represents the peak of 2D game design. Easily in my top 5 games of all time, and one of the few I'd confidently call a masterpiece. I really can't come up with a single flaw this game has without being extremely nitpicky. The graphics are bright and have a wonderful crayon-esque handdrawn look, something that drew me into the game instantly. Every level is creatively crafted and every song is catchy and wonderful on the ears. This game also put the FX chip to use in creative ways, more than just creating super primitive 3D like Star Fox, even if it's use is a lot more subtle. 

All said, it's very rare when I can give a game a perfect grade both objectively and personally, but this game deserves it. Easiest 10/10 so far and if I could give it a higher grade than that I would.

[Webhead123 | 675]

Both a fantastic showcase of what was possible on the SNES late in its lifecycle and an incredible game to boot. While it doesn't have the same degree of personal tie to me as Super Mario World, it is pretty easy to call it a contender for the top 10 games on the SNES, a console which is positively overflowing with amazing titles.

I don't know exactly when the raging began against crying baby Mario but it has been greatly exaggerated. I've never found the crying annoying. It's supposed to give you a sense of urgency and I think it does that effectively.

Wonderful graphics, music, stage and power-up design. The finale is also a pretty delightfully different kind of spectacle than we got from Mario games up to that point.

9/10

[phart010 | 1,705]

5 minutes ago, Webhead123 said:

Both a fantastic showcase of what was possible on the SNES late in its lifecycle and an incredible game to boot. While it doesn't have the same degree of personal tie to me as Super Mario World, it is pretty easy to call it a contender for the top 10 games on the SNES, a console which is positively overflowing with amazing titles.

I don't know exactly when the raging began against crying baby Mario but it has been greatly exaggerated. I've never found the crying annoying. It's supposed to give you a sense of urgency and I think it does that effectively.

Wonderful graphics, music, stage and power-up design. The finale is also a pretty delightfully different kind of spectacle than we got from Mario games up to that point.

9/10

I think different people have varying levels of tolerance for the crying based on how their brain is wired. I never thought anything of it. But The first time I played this game at my mother in laws house, my mother in law was flipping out when she heard it and looked pretty disgusted. Also my wife can’t stand it.

[CMR | 519]

20 hours ago, Splain said:

Love this game. One of my all time favorites. Yeah, the crying created some urgency to get you to stop it, but it's not a hard game if you're just trying to get to the end. I 100%'d it as a kid and those bonus levels were brutal. Once you could get items at-will by 100%ing certain worlds, that made it way easier to get 100 on the harder levels.

There was a code you could enter that unlocked some 2-player mini games, and I played those plenty.

I actually didn't know about this.  I'm going to have to look these up.

 

@OptOut How did you manage to get your copy signed?

Edited August 26, 2022 by CMR