weekly contest 2022 VGS NES Weekly Contest - TECMO CUP SOCCER!

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

13 minutes ago, Krunch said:

@Dr. Morbis @the_wizard_666There's precedent for general tiebreakers without game-specific tiebreak conditions -- for shared placements you split the points that in this case would exist for 1st plus 2nd so, 20 +16 = 36 so me and Wiz would get 18 each.  So it's kinda like a docked victory.  (3rd would get just get normal 3rd).  That's my prediction for what will happen anyway.  20 each would be great of course Hopefully it stays as a shared victory since nothing was outlined, and there was definitely tying potential, even early on today I was sitting one point underneath at +24 and still trying.

I'd actually be okay with that.  A split first place with 18 points (slightly less than solo, but slightly more than runner up) would probably be the best solution (although I'd still prefer 20/20 to have a nice even 40 points on the genre board ).  Although with the low participation, the 20/20 solution probably won't make much difference either way.  Seriously, only 5 players?  I mean, I know it's soccer, but still, you'd think there'd be a few extra bodies doing a single game just for the participation points.  Sheesh come on VGS...I know sports sees the lowest participation in general, but only 5 of us made the small effort to post?  We can totally do better than that!

[BeaIank | 1,618]

There is no tie breaker rule, so both will be sharing the laurels of the 1st place this week and taking 18 points home.

I had a lot of work working with the game and messing with the password system to get a team so strong that steam rolling over Germany and Brazil would be fairly easy, so I am glad you guys who took your time to play it enjoy the over powered team.
Beating Brazil and Germany with a team in the low 20s level is quite difficult.

[Krunch | 303]

This is among my few victories so far (think it's only 3, cant really count Spartan-X without an asterik...) and even though it was shared but feels legit as a 2-person victory, and sharing with Wiz, well in Tecmo Cup Soccer terms we're like Robin and Damon here

[NESfiend | 1,515]

17 hours ago, Krunch said:

Simon and Roger with their specials in the back tied my strat together totally.  Just worked on many levels and was balanced cause I did lots of attempts & once I was getting over 20 consistently, I was hitting 16-0 on Germany many times, got a few 24's of varying combinations, and generally coming out the same on Brazil (10 was my best but that was paired with a 14, second last attempt).

10 against brazil is insane. Against Germany, I was using any special shot from any place on the field. The four guys you mentioned plus Karl's powerful. Against Germany, Karl's powerful, both damon's special shots, and robin's special shot were the only ones that seemed to score, but even those Arthur saved a lot. Between the saves and running out of guts using those special shots exclusively, goals just weren't easy to come by. I would frequently forget about karl's powerful, so I think I could have added some there, but 10-0 against Brazil still seems really unattainable. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by NESfiend

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

37 minutes ago, Krunch said:

This is among my few victories so far (think it's only 3, cant really count Spartan-X without an asterik...) and even though it was shared but feels legit as a 2-person victory, and sharing with Wiz, well in Tecmo Cup Soccer terms we're like Robin and Damon here

You sure know how to make a dude feel good!  And with @0xDEAFC0DE nowhere to be found, the odds are this year's gonna have a new genre champion.  I'm hoping it'll be me, but I have no experience with any of the games being played.  Of course, I had no experience with either of the games we've already played, so who knows, maybe I'll pull it off.  I'm happy to have competition though.  There may not be many participants, but at least this round was hard fought.

38 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

10 against brazil is insane. Against Germany, I was using any special shot from any place on the field. The four guys you mentioned plus Karl's powerful. Against Germany, Karl's powerful, both damon's special shots, and robin's special shot were the only ones that seemed to score, but even those Arthur saved a lot. Between the saves and running out of guts using those special shots exclusively, goals just weren't easy to come by. I would frequently forget about karl's powerful, so I think I could have added some there, but 10-0 against Brazil still seems really unattainable. 

Special shots weren't even necessary.  I was scoring with normal shots from my end of the field against Germany.  Specials were all but guaranteed (occasionally they'd hit the post), but even most normal shots could plow through three or four defenders and still go in.  Brazil though, man are they ever beasts!  10 against them is insane...I thought 6 was gonna be insurmountable!

[Murray | 2,447]

[Krunch | 303]

2 hours ago, NESfiend said:

10 against brazil is insane. Against Germany, I was using any special shot from any place on the field. The four guys you mentioned plus Karl's powerful. Against Germany, Karl's powerful, both damon's special shots, and robin's special shot were the only ones that seemed to score, but even those Arthur saved a lot. Between the saves and running out of guts using those special shots exclusively, goals just weren't easy to come by. I would frequently forget about karl's powerful, so I think I could have added some there, but 10-0 against Brazil still seems really unattainable. 

Once I'm settled in a bit I'm gonna detail out some of my strategies which involved line changes, mostly just changing them around and crucially in front of the net.  Because unlike Wiz I did rely on power shots only and passing to those 5 guys with specials, except for the odd normal goal here and there where I could get a good opportunity, or if one guys is in alone to just tire out the goalie and catch rebounds while waiting for the team.  

[Krunch | 303]

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

You sure know how to make a dude feel good!  And with @0xDEAFC0DE nowhere to be found, the odds are this year's gonna have a new genre champion.  I'm hoping it'll be me, but I have no experience with any of the games being played.  Of course, I had no experience with either of the games we've already played, so who knows, maybe I'll pull it off.  I'm happy to have competition though.  There may not be many participants, but at least this round was hard fought.

Special shots weren't even necessary.  I was scoring with normal shots from my end of the field against Germany.  Specials were all but guaranteed (occasionally they'd hit the post), but even most normal shots could plow through three or four defenders and still go in.  Brazil though, man are they ever beasts!  10 against them is insane...I thought 6 was gonna be insurmountable!

 

Yeah dude you got a good shot I'll still be right behind trying to ramp up the competition, I can usually do pretty good on most of these Sports games, not so much the racing games, with sports I'm able to carry the patience just like any other game... but that also depends on the sport.  If anything I get more impatient and hopeless playing certain platformers or other genres in the contest format that have clear A to Bs.

I think if I would have tailored my strategy to not always go for specials I could have done more.... the goals I did get on all runs were generally efficient and quick, I passed to key players but they weren't usually conservative shots.  But then again if you launch a special from all the way back and they get the ball then that's a huge amount of time the COM's gonna burn running the ball back.  As usual, a hybrid strategy ends up being the key

[Krunch | 303]

Okay so here were some of the ways I tinkered with the lineups.  There are a few different variations and some are more crucial than others.  I tried lots of different combos.  It mainly seemed to matter more for the back.   These are strategies for beating both teams, I would kinda variate as I go.

On the back line I went Roger, Simon, Hans; then Nigel right in front of the goalie.  So basically, I swapped Nigel and Roger, and then benched James for Hans. 

The Hans/Brook thing wasn't a huge factor for me and we all discussed that before... I liked Hans' style better, seems like he got the ball on his own volition more often and made better passing.

The Nigel/Roger swap was a huge boon for me and my most important swap.  This puts Roger in a spot where he's often a candidate for passing (cause you only get 4 on a given pass).  Then you can use Jet Shot from all the way back.  Nigel is totally adequate for blocking the goalie, he will often get it when he needs, and Eddie the goalie is strong anyway.

On the center and front lines I messed around a bit.  The default on front is Paolo-Damon-Karl I think?   Karl seems to be best where he is, I had him center at one point and it worked fine, but I still prefer him being on the side.  Sometimes I'd put Damon on the side and get Paolo in the center (Paolo can special kick from the air but is also generally good for normal goals), this is mostly based on how fast Damon runs out if you use the blast.  Basically to avoid pressing Damon too hard so then when you need him it works.  But generally just put him in the center.   I should point out that when I got my 10+ I don't necessarily remember the front line.  Pretty sure I just had Damon in the center.  That wasn't even part of my submitted run though, that's just the best I did.

For the midfield line, I personally liked shifting it over, where instead of Marko-Robin-Peter you go Robin-Peter-Marko.  This just puts Robin in a nice position and conserves some of his energy.  Peter and Marko can catch it sometimes randomly and then they just pass.  Not really a super crucial role, even the center.   Karl picks up a lot of the slack in this area.

Robin's placement links back to Simon's, who for me had the highest Goal Percentage, so if it's in the center I want it going to Simon over Robin.   Better goal %, and Simon has more energy to spare generally.

So when all is said a done if you look at the field horizontally like how it's displayed on the passing screen, for the power shooters I've got Roger and Robin on the "top", Simon on the center rear, Damon on the center front, and Karl on the front right but still doing lots in the midfield.

The strategy in practice comes down to energy conservation, passing to the right person (even sometimes passing from one Power Shot player to another), and to some degree I did notice I started doing better just edging up a little bit and spending a bit of the clock to get a better shot even if I'm way back in the field (Roger shots mostly).

What I could have done better is a bit more emphasis on passing to just put normal shots through.  Walking the ball up burns too much time.  But maybe could have passed into a couple slots to move up the field.  I don't know... I didn't have as good of luck against Brazil going for normal shots, but it might have improved Germany.

For defensive I probably just did what everyone did... go for the tackles when you get a chance.  You can always pass after no matter who gets it.  For goalie, Wolf when you need to, and know when you can get away with just a Punch.  I never used Catch at all.  As I kept playing, the opposing team's shots on net dwindled from match to match.  Became an easier factor to deal with later compared to figuring out how to squeeze just one more in with the time alloted

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Wait, so you didn't realize that you could cancel and go back to the pass menu and get different options every time?  Once I figured that out it was just a matter of cycling until the guy I wanted was available...

[Krunch | 303]

9 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Wait, so you didn't realize that you could cancel and go back to the pass menu and get different options every time?  Once I figured that out it was just a matter of cycling until the guy I wanted was available...

Oh shit!  Good point.  Now that youre saying it I do remember doing it by accident once.  

Even still, I like the Roger/Nigel switching placement, and also moving Robin to the "top" of the horizontal field, just cause it gives you a decent shot from all those spots to save time.  The opposing goalie is usually standing closer to the bottom of the horizontal screen, it keeps that window open when youre still far back.

 

[NESfiend | 1,515]

@Krunch - thanks for the detailed post about optimal lines. The approach is genius and will def revisit this thread the next time I play this game and use those strats. 

The only thing Id point out thats contrary is never using 'catch' option with gk. I used it on shots taken by germany that were by regular players (meaning No. 9, No. 10, etc, as opposed to the ones with actual names). It never failed with a gk this strong and it saved on guts AND takes away random chance on who gets ball after the punch rebound. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by NESfiend

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

4 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

@Krunch - thanks for the detailed post about optimal lines. The approach is genius and will def revisit this thread the next time I play this game and use those strats. 

The only thing Id point out thats contrary is never using 'catch' option with gk. I used it on shots taken by germany that were by regular players (meaning No. 9, No. 10, etc, as opposed to the ones with actual names). It never failed with a gk this strong and it saved on guts AND takes away random chance on who gets ball after the punch rebound. 

Playing the game normally, I'm finding that "catch" tends to suck unless the shot is coming from a long way out, and even then it's a crapshoot.  Punch is more reliable.  But that goes out of the window when you get to the big leagues...the teams are too damn strong if you get there early on...I can barely get close to the net, nevermind scoring.  Gonna be a lot of grinding to get good enough to progress further...

[Krunch | 303]

1 hour ago, NESfiend said:

@Krunch - thanks for the detailed post about optimal lines. The approach is genius and will def revisit this thread the next time I play this game and use those strats. 

The only thing Id point out thats contrary is never using 'catch' option with gk. I used it on shots taken by germany that were by regular players (meaning No. 9, No. 10, etc, as opposed to the ones with actual names). It never failed with a gk this strong and it saved on guts AND takes away random chance on who gets ball after the punch rebound. 

Good point.  I think for me the punch/wolf was so reliable early on that I never deviated out of fear.  Eddie didnt even get scored on for me I think until my third attempt, and that just 1.  I could certainly try catching instead of punching against Germany for less-good shots so I retain control... that's probably the factor that kept me at 16, the clock was the real enemy where I just had to accept that at certain times pretty big chunks burn down for no immediate benefit.  I could retain a better total offensive state if I didn't turn over those handful of punches.

I don't usually play after the week is done but I'll probably try a bit more to see if I can just do a little better against Germany using some of these new intel.

[BeaIank | 1,618]

Final standings posted.

I hope you all who played this little unknown gem had fun with it and will try to beat it in the normal way.
I had a ton of work to get a pretty OP team to serve you all so you could steam roll Germany and Brazil for this round.